720p vs 1080p

[chouette]

I need a simple answer to this. You know me, if too complicated, you will lose me...

I'm seeing these 2 often in discussions and so forth, and I'm reading a lot of info that doesn't really explain the difference between the 2 except that 720 is HD and so is 1080, but a FULL HD. Well, that doesn't help me much because honestly, HD is HD to me lol

What I'm REALLY seeking here is "which one of those 2 will fill my TV the most", meaning less black crap on top and bottom. I prefer when a movie fills my screen completely, but apparently with HD, it's not something possible, or is it?

Now, please, please keep it simple. Merci

720p-vs-1080p.gif (17.98 KiB) Viewed 12361 times

[Fogdude]

Filling your TV screen is not a matter of how many scan lines are present in the video stream (720p or 1080p) but whether the video image is actually a true 16x9 aspect ratio. Most movies are a variation on that 16x9 standard of 1.77:1 or 1.78:1 (NTSC). Some are 1.66:1 (usually PAL) or standard old style 4x3 1.33:1, you know, what your grandparents thought was a normal picture. These will give you black bars, either on the side or the top & bottom, unless you set your TV display options to stretch the image to fill edge to edge. This is not very desirable, since it makes the images wide & fat or tall & thin, both of which I find unbearably distracting & irritating beyond toleration. I don't mind the black bars, myself, if they keep the aspect ratio correct. A real circle should appear perfectly round. If it looks like an oval, the aspect ratio is off. I find this skewing of images just as distasteful on covers & labels as I do on my TV screen.

Many 'widescreen' ratios are 1.85:1, 2.35:1 or even 2.39:1 &, of course, there's nothing to stop a studio from going with virtually anything else they think might get them an edge. The point is, if the image is wider than the standard 1.78:1, then to keep the aspect ratio correct, it's necessary to put black bars on the top & bottom to keep the images from being vertically stretched.

So, you see, on your TV, when it comes to widescreen, black bars are your friend, though most TVs will let you maintain the aspect ratio & also fill your screen by cutting off the left & right ends, making the top & bottom edges fit. This is most commonly done for broadcast TV. I do it myself for non-HD channels.

It's all a trade-off. I prefer the black bars.

See? I didn't get the least bit technical!

[Fogdude]

1435998009385243206.png

The bigger your TV is (and the closer you sit to it), the more likely you’ll actually be able to tell the difference between standard definition, 720p, 1080p, and even 4K. The chart above, from Carlton Bale, is a good reference for figuring out whether 1080p or 4K really matter in your living room. (It’s based on 20/20 eyesight, so your mileage may vary)

Oh, sure. Get technical!

[chouette]

Thanks for all this great info Fog and FS! Yeah Fog, you didn’t get too technical and in a way, neither did FS as I sort of understood his cool pic!

I don’t mind the black bars at the top or bottom either, it’s just that sometimes, not often, you have more black bars on top and bottom than the actual movie portion, and that really bothers me. Now, if I understand correctly, according to the chart that FS posted and what you mentioned Fog, it doesn’t seem to matter whether its 720p or 1080p, that’s more for the picture quality right? It’s the true aspect ratio that makes the difference for the amount of black bar vs what you see of the movie, correct?

Quality is important to me but not as much as the thickness of those black bars compare to what is left to view of the movie.

[Fogdude]

Thanks for all this great info Fog and FS! Yeah Fog, you didn’t get too technical and in a way, neither did FS as I sort of understood his cool pic!

I don’t mind the black bars at the top or bottom either, it’s just that sometimes, not often, you have more black bars on top and bottom than the actual movie portion, and that really bothers me. Now, if I understand correctly, according to the chart that FS posted and what you mentioned Fog, it doesn’t seem to matter whether its 720p or 1080p, that’s more for the picture quality right? It’s the true aspect ratio that makes the difference for the amount of black bar vs what you see of the movie, correct?

Quality is important to me but not as much as the thickness of those black bars compare to what is left to view of the movie.

Exactly. You got it. The number of scan lines determines the clarity of the image, though it can only in rare cases improve on a bad original image.

The black bars are created to fill the screen when the image doesn't. As I mentioned, you can, on most TVs, alter the 'size' of the image & force the TV or player to produce less, or even no, black bars, but when you do that, it must trim off part the left & right of the image, when it expands it vertically, to fill the screen. That's not as much as a problem as the reverse. Cropping away the top & bottom, which must be done to make a native 4x3 image fill a 16x9 screen, often cuts off the tops of characters' heads or their hands & chests, which can lose important details or actions.

It's always a mixed bag & deciding on the trade-off is a matter of personal taste. I just leave the black bars. After a bit, you just don't see them.

You must be getting some seriously panoramic movies, if the top & bottom bars are so huge.

[Fogdude]

I guess upscaling to 4K is trickier than to 1080. At that size, the interpolations would probably look nastier.

[Fogdude]

I'm debating whether to buy a 50" monitor for my laptop as 17" just doesn't cut it with PS

I don't know that I could handle a 50. I still just live with my 17" laptop screens. My wife has a 39" TV as her screen. Even that seems a bit large for my. I'd have to put my head on a swivel to track around the dang thing. Of course, I felt that way when I bought our first 35" CRT TV. Now we're on a 60" LED & it seems completely normal. I guess it's just what you get used to.

[ctaulbee]

If you ever decide that a monitor upgrade is in order and a little money is not a obstacle.

I would recommend a dual monitor setup, I've been using one since 1989, the design house I worked for had me doing AutoCad drawings and they had a dual screen setup as AutoCad uses a command window and a graphics window, so it's far better than switching back and forth.

Once I discovered Photoshop around Version 7, I upgraded my desktop to a dual 17" monitor setup, the advantage of that is, your work screen will have no menus or windows in the way, just the work image, the other screen has all the menus and open tools windows, so you need never collapse tools or switch they are all open all the time, you can image the time it will save with no window collapsing or expanding.

That is why some of my tutorials you see me looking for things, lol, reason is I'm not used to them all not being open all the time --on the other screen-- but for tutorials, I run it in single screen mode, like most everyone else uses.

Today I run two 27" HD screens I can't imagine needing anything bigger as any Design house will tell you when working on hires images for print you should always work at 50% not 100% anyway, the reason is at 50% it will look more like what the actual print-out will provided your monitors are properly calibrated of course and only zoom to 100% to check fine details.

[Fogdude]

Excellent pointers, CT. I've considered dual monitors for a couple of years, but just haven't had a driving need. Several of my friends & even a couple of family members are using them, though they don't even do graphics. I'm a dinosaur, I guess.

[chouette]

I should have known that it was wrong of me to ask that you don't get technical on a very technical question...

I like your idea of dual monitors CT, but I'm afraid I might not have room for 2 screens. My desk space is fully used by a lot of crap and even 1 monitor takes too much room lol... how big is your desk to accomodate two 27" screens?

[ctaulbee]

It's decent sized lol

[chouette]

chouette dual monitors will occupy less space, as they all have Vesa fixings and you can buy a Dual Monitor Desk Mount Bracket that holds 2 Screens.

I don't know how you figured that 2 screens use less space that 1 unless they are one on top of the other...

[Fogdude]

I think he meant they take less desk space, since they can hang on the wall on a bracket.

I've considered dual monitors, but same as you, I have no more desk space. I don't like the idea of hanging my monitors on the wall. For one, they'd be too far away (can't sneeze on them as well & make all those crusty blobby spots I keep thinking are artifacts in the graphics I'm editing.) For another, I'm just too lazy to be bothered with going through the effort of mounting the bracket & hanging the monitors. Yes, I'm that lazy.

[chouette]

I think he meant they take less desk space, since they can hang on the wall on a bracket.

I've considered dual monitors, but same as you, I have no more desk space. I don't like the idea of hanging my monitors on the wall. For one, they'd be too far away (can't sneeze on them as well & make all those crusty blobby spots I keep thinking are artifacts in the graphics I'm editing.) For another, I'm just too lazy to be bothered with going through the effort of mounting the bracket & hanging the monitors. Yes, I'm that lazy.

Ahhhh ok, well that's a no as well because I have the kind of desk that has a huge hutch on top of it which is definitely useful to put more crap!

[Roseflamingo]

On my 4K TV (65") I actually find that the super clarity is a bit distracting, films tend to lose the way films should look - like motion picture film. Everything tends to look like video, actually feeling like your at a stage play instead of a movie theater. Watching movies like Jurassic Park 4 (3D) is like your looking out your window instead of watching a television. For day to day viewing I prefer 1080, even 720. But 3D really comes alive with 4K TV, although most 4K's upgrade video content to the 4K resolution. More true 4K content needs to be available soon! (How 4K got into this 720p vs 1080p mix I'm not sure... oh that's right, I brought it up. My bad.)

[chouette]

Actually Jim, you are not totally guilty on that one as FS started to talk about 4K a few posts earlier before yours, showing those god awful yellow glasses, lol. And then he went on to the size of computer screens which led to CT's discussion about dual monitor setup. So there, lots of fun things to read that started with a simple question...



And yes FS, I googled 'desk top monitor mount' and now I see perfectly what you mean. It's still not an option for me, but I can certainly see why you would say that dual monitors would occupy less space! I'm able to understand quickly, you just have to explain in details many times and different ways... lol

[Fogdude]

:LOL No mention of wall

You have managed to login, so using Google and typing 'desk top monitor mount' shouldn't be hard

Sorry for the presumption.

[Pip]

720p or 1080p refers to the pixels from top to bottom on your screen so obviously 1080 is better definition. However -
Generally speaking, if you sit more than 10 feet away from your TV, and your display isn’t bigger than 50 inches diagonally, you won’t be able to tell the difference between 720 and 1080.